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Question: Warrior or Combat Rogue
#1
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Hey my main concern is, since group composition is very limited in higher tier raids, I wonder how people look in melee classes, and are melee getting often invited in serious groups? 

My second question is I between warrior and rogue, who scales better with higher gear and in general who is better performer. If you don't mind post any insights, I would appreciate.

Thanks for your time
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#2
Rogue does a lot more dps and has less threat issues.

The dps gap is the result of 2 things. First, expose armor isn't blizzlike on retro wow, and stacks with sunder armor. This allows a rogue to ratchet up their entire group's melee dps by a very significant margin. Second, fury warriors are nuts in 40 man vanilla raids, but suffer in retro's 5 man setting. You get a lot more goodies in a 40 man raid (leader of the pack, kings+might+salv or windfury, trueshot aura, faerie fire, curse of reck, etc). Fury warriors scale exponentially with gear and buffs due to their resource generation being tied to their damage output, so losing the buffs and auras from 35 extra teammates affects furies more than it does rogues.

Threat wise, furies generate a ton of threat, whereas rogues can just vanish if they ot and (barring an extraordinary disparity between the gear/competence of the rogue and tank) not worry about threat at all thereafter.

The nail in the fury coffin is the fact that fury warriors are dependent on expose armor to do even half decent dps. A bis fury warrior (buffed with consumables, might, and battle shout) can expect to do about 600 dps (700 with windfury) with no expose armor. This goes up to around 800 (900) with expose. A bis combat swords rogue (buffed with consumables, might, and battle shout) can expect to do about 900 dps (1k with windfury). A bis seal fate daggers rogue, with another rogue exposing for them, can expect to do about 1100 dps (1200 with windfury).

A bis fury warrior with full buffs in an ideal group comp (prot warrior + rogue + cat + fury + resto shaman) can do about 1200-1300 (though sometimes you'll get a lot of crit luck and do more). A bis seal fate daggers rogue in the same situation could probably break 1600 or so, though I've never tested it.

Disclaimer: my dps numbers are anecdotal, not from calculations, so they could be very wrong. But they give a hopefully accurate general idea, and I can guarantee that, at the same gear level, rogue dps is higher than fury dps in every conceivable situation.

As to your first question, melee only has 2 places in a speedclear naxx run: gluth (a fury or a feral druid to taunt) and kt (a rogue to kick). Unless the boss encounter demands otherwise, the highest dps comp will always be 2 mages and a warlock. That said, naxx speedclears are sorta rare. You'll get invited to plenty of perfectly "serious" 15/15 pugs as a rogue.

Dps ranking
1. Mage (not even close)
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2. Lock (normally, rogues would be 1 and locks would be 2, but currently vs. undead gear is bugged and dots scale absurdly with it)
3. Rogue
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4. Fury (with expose)
5. Ret paladin (with expose = smite priest (with a ret paladin) = hunter (with expose)
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6. Feral druid (I forget which one, but the scaling on one of their abilities [I think bite] is way lower than it ought to be, severely inhibiting cats)
7. Shadow priest (mind flay scaling is bugged, in addition to blizzlike mana issues, but the vs. undead gear bug helps put spriest above owl for now)
8. Balance druid
9. Enh > Ele shaman, both are pretty useless though

- signifies a large gap in dps between the classes it separates
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#3
I really appreciate your effort and time in explaining this, I'll take my time to study further. Thank you
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#4
No problem. In choosing your class, I'd keep in mind that as a whole, this server isn't that hard. You can definitely progress and kill every boss here as a fury warrior, it'll just be slightly more difficult to find groups. Yes, you'd be making life a bit harder for yourself, but it definitely won't be impossible. This is a pretty easy server.

Plus, you can out dps 90% of the rogues here as a fury warrior if you farm and use consumables generously. I very rarely encounter random pug rogues who use full consumables, mostly they just use poisons and maybe mongoose.
Fury + mongoose + estones + scrolls + giants + firewater + juju + scorpok + roids + felwood > unbuffed rogue

Good luck and cheers
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#5
Thank you so much.
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#6
ive seen every kind of class make it through, youll play what you enjoy most the best
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#7
Very good post by maggot +1

I'll just add that if you're willing to tank a little, you will find groups easily and get your fury gear as fast as being a fury war in the beggining with the benefit of gettin insta groups and tank gear. When you got some decent fury gear you will find yourself in a better position to do Aq40 / naxx as fury

If you only intend to be fury and also like rogues then it will be easier for you to start with a rogue in my opinion.

(02-10-2017, 12:59 PM)Maggot Wrote: Plus, you can out dps 90% of the rogues here as a fury warrior if you farm and use consumables generously. I very rarely encounter random pug rogues who use full consumables, mostly they just use poisons and maybe mongoose.
Fury + mongoose + estones + scrolls + giants + firewater + juju + scorpok + roids + felwood > unbuffed rogue

Good luck and cheers

As a starter you may not want to spend all your gold/time for consummes so like I said, dps wise rogue will be easier to start with.
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