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PvP Attitude
#11
(03-08-2017, 10:30 PM)Gnawbone Wrote: Soviet that's an old argument I tried to use back when prems were a big discussion point on the forums. Unfortunately those who take issue with prems can't be bothered to make their own

Hmm sadSad
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#12
These are the same guys who alt f4 out of pugs vs pugs tho so
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#13
+1 to this post. Premades are definitely killing pvp on this server. It is also killing the skills of the players here (not that many people are high anyways)
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#14
(03-17-2017, 04:02 AM)Dazy Wrote: +1 to this post. Premades are definitely killing pvp on this server. It is also killing the skills of the players here (not that many people are high anyways)
I think you missed the point
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#15
Dazy, for your own good : Do not replay to that post.
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#16
(03-17-2017, 03:35 PM)walenkryx Wrote: Dazy, for your own good : Do not replay to that post.

Why not? The point of my post was that it's not so simple as "premades kill the server" the point is that the attitudes and behaviors of many premades do hurt the server, but for him to come in and say "yes I agree prems kill the server" blatantly means he isn't even reading the thread
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
[Image: ks9xXfy.jpg]
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#17
I agree with Sleeping Beauty. Lets remove the WSG guy and just have AB (where solo queue is forced). I mean come on we hardly play it anyways, would be great to get people doing some something new (not to mention good AB games are fun), and everyone knows AV is as real as Gohan's sex life.
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#18
(03-21-2017, 12:54 AM)Dazy Wrote: I agree with Sleeping Beauty... and everyone knows AV is as real as Gohan's sex life.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#19
maD cuz owN by Madscientist,deported mexican,grunion,xiaoxaxo and Lolv haHA

Jk don't take this srsly.
But I don't think prems should be banned due to easy $$$ making for the ppl who participate in premades.
Issue is that retro wow pvpers aren't rly skillcapped when it comes to pvp. I'm pretty sure if u take decent pvpers from feenix(not server promoting) and make a premade, premades of retro will be easly crushed.
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#20
The point of the post was not really about premade, it was about other forms of pvp that can be unhealthy in a pvp environment, like turtles or gy farm, and mindless midfarm.

But the main issue is the mindset of players. Its not important what unhealthy shape takes the pvp because every shape isnt bad in his core first (turtles can be an honest way to play if not abused, premade can be awesome when not against naked pug, and gy farm.. well this is cancer tbh but not that present). So from the core of it, nothing is bad but the use people do from it right.

So the only issue here is people mindset, just like the title of that post actually shows it, when talking about the pvp attitude.

Now to keep my post as short as possible, ill sat that people most of the time act regarding of their environment and what they experience and learn.
We are who we are depending of what we have around us (for the most part)

In wow its the exact same thing, its just way more easy to ser the consequences of the environment since its a game, and life is way more compleX

Every animal attitude, to use your word gnawbone if your still reading, is basee on 2 main things: reward of punishment. In one word : personal interest.
Of course humans are a bit different and one can argue that we can act from a genuinr point of view, but lets assume for one second that most retrowow players are here to have fun and being entertained; i dont think its hard to imagine right

In that case the only thing that can change their behaviour( or attitude in the long term) is to change the environment, just like if you want to tame a beast, you ll have to feed it. Or she ll remain savage.

Change the environment means one thing; and it is changing the personal interest position to another place.

The personal interest or in any game or anywhere should be gained by doing something that requires the player an actual quest, in a symbolic way. A quest of self improvment. At least for his skill. The perfect game would require the actual player to improve himself, it might happen one day. What an addidtive game it will be. Maybe that game allready exist and is called life.

Actual fame are just about virtual improvement of your character, thats the core of everygame. Right now the only improvement required is the gearing process.

Blizard anderstood somehow how important was the fact that player needed to feel an improvement of their character and they made arenas and rating, then rated bgs. They even anderstood that in vanilla with the time required to get consumables and r14 r13. They simply transformed the quantity time as the main tool for the improvement, into the quality of time spent. Meaning you dont have to play a lot to get gear, you just have to play well, and get gear trhough gear.

And thats what i like on retrowow, just like a lot of players, its the fact that the quantity of time doesnt have to be huge to get gear. We can see that its the main concern of players with the alt loot situation.

So retrowow destroyed the time problem, now the only thing we need is to actually create something to replace that content.
Now we cant have ratings here, but i know there are things that can be done in order to make reward for the characters improvement

Its all about adding content that allows or forces it needed playerd to improve. And since its the core of every game, retrowow might lose some players that got use to doing nothing, for whome the game has become some kind of facebook realm in 3d, but most people enjoy the actual gameplay that i know.

So yea, change the rewards to make people improve themseves is the core of every game, and thats what players want wheter they realize it or not.

Right now the only positive reward going in that directions are
mark of warsong : definitly the most positive reward helping players to improve and create more challenge even if it creates sometimes cancer premade, its overal difinitlt a great reward dince premade are also overal great.

Pvp tokens : pvp tokens are fine, i just want to change the reward of it. The amount required to get 1 pvp item is huge, and thats one of the main reasons people do mindless midfarm. To people saying people play badly with or without tokens ill say they are right, but why encourage them doing it more then ?
What is overal unhealthy to be more clear is the reward of those pvp tokens. I would change them to 700pvp tokens and 30marks of warsong for 1 pvp gear. Everything should have marks as a condition to get gear imo, in order to enhance the priority of winning in a warsong, and therefore make it more fun for everyone overal. Even pve gear tbh. I would make for instance a t3 gear 16k g and 40mark of warsong. The overal price wont change ( it will regarding pvp gear tho) but it will change the mindset of players. Because visual matter so much in a game. People will see that mark of warsong is the main currency of the realm. Thats what i want. I want marks of wsg and ab to be seen like that to enhance the wsg s quality and peoples skill. And if those players dont improve, it will attract others that will.

Regarding the gear, the more an item is oriented pvp the more marks it will required, it the item is way more pve, then it could require less mark and a higher % of gold.

So make marks the main currency by adding it in every current reward options (pvp gear, vendors) because changing the rewards ststem change the pvp attitude, or if it doesnt, it attract another kind of pvp players with that pvp attitude.

Basically if we put the mark of warsongs with a % in the price required to buy most items, you increase the need of people to playbthe objectives, and to actually make group to win.

What i want is a lot of ambitious and smart people that see that winning wsg is the way to go, and thn group in order to buy what they need.

I want to see a bunch of wsg groups fighting each other, creating a new kind of bg; a rated bg with players that NEED to win. Without the need, nobody do anything. Let s create that need and let vanilla s genius reveal himself

bgs of 2 or 3 peiple with the only purpose of killing each other could be a kind of arenas. Thats a great content to add here. Maybe make a special currency in those reduced bgs to make them attractive and more challenging too

But yea, thats why you change a mindset. You change the reward of the system and people will adapt in order to survive. And if they dont, others will
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