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Thistle tea availability - rogue authenticity
#31
I don’t want an easy acces, if each free action potion you use cost you 100gif you use 10 in 2bg u lost 1000g, and lets say u win both bg you would have won 6 marks, so 600g. So the average free action used would be 3, 4 or 5 for every 2bgs depending of your win ratio. And if you don’t use gold for anything else but those potion.  3, 4 or 5 pots every 2bgs knowing that bgs last in average 30min, it doesnt seems high at all. Less than 3 pots used every 2bgs is way too low tho.
Seems like a perfect ratio to me, what do you think ?
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#32
I feel maybe the post is being derailed a little bit with all the talk about free action pots and other consumes..

This suggestion is specifically about Thistle Tea and it's availability.

The point I'm trying to make is the fact that Thistle Tea is NOT actually a real consumable in the same sense others are. FAP isn't a part of any class rotation.. they are expensive to use too.

Thistle Tea however is a natural part of the rogue's rotation... and it's super cheap, just like Blind.

The fact that Thistle Tea is so inconvenient to come by, makes it inconsistent with the other changes made to the server. (Soul Shards, Blinding Powder, etc on vendors).

A warlock doesn't have to go farm new soul shards every 10 duels. Why does a rogue have to go farm herbs every 10 duels just to pratice their basic rotations?


Take a look at this picture and tell me where my logic is flawed:

That's literally around 20 silver per pot. 20... silver. Free action pots etc are over 3g per pot.

If I want to pratice playing my rogue on RetroWoW with real vanilla rotations I need to spend over 55g per /duel. That's ridiculous. I'd be out of money in 5 minutes.

[Image: eOQfFKe.png]

A fadeleaf (for blinding powder) also costs 30-40 silver each.. but we can get that from vendors here. Why isn't that also the case with Thistle Tea?
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#33
My bad, I do think it’s kind of the same general idea tho, but maybe talking about thistle tea alone is already a subject hard to follow on it’s own, although it is evident to me that the price should be reduced as once again, according to blizzard themselves it was a very easy access consumables. Talking about how retrowow’s economy is different is a fact and not an argument whatsoever, otherwise you are basically saying that retrowow's economy makes more sense than the blizzard's economy and choice, and therefore blizzlike gameplay since the economy here, is directly linked to the gameplay.
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#34
Here's what you go do as a test: find out how fast one can farm the mats for the thistle tea. If you find that it takes way too long then we'll consider agreeing with you. Right now it seems like you've rarely if ever gone out to farm this thistle tea on your on on this server. I even saw Vsu selling thistle tea in stacks so it can't be that hard to farm...
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#35
(01-15-2019, 10:48 AM)kfcrampage Wrote: Here's what you go do as a test: find out how fast one can farm the mats for the thistle tea. If you find that it takes way too long then we'll consider agreeing with you. Right now it seems like you've rarely if ever gone out to farm this thistle tea on your on on this server. I even saw Vsu selling thistle tea in stacks so it can't be that hard to farm...

You realise I can spend a stack in less than a minute or two, right? Rogue duels rarely last that long.

If I only needed them every 5 minutes it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But one of the features of the server is CD reset on duels. So some classes spend a ridiculous amount of 'consumes' in a very short time when dueling.. such as Soul Shards, Blinding Powder, Thistle tea, etc.

May as well ask a warlock to go check how long it takes to farm a bag full of soul shards mate... Just to blow them in 8-10 duels later.
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#36
(01-14-2019, 09:22 PM)Hisana Wrote: What people here don't seem to understand, is the fact that Thistle Tea is NOT expensive. It's NOT something 'extra'. It's a basic rogue tool and a part of their natural rotation in PvP, no different from Blind.

(01-15-2019, 11:35 AM)Hisana Wrote: You realise I can spend a stack in less than a minute or two, right? Rogue duels rarely last that long.

If I only needed them every 5 minutes it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But one of the features of the server is CD reset on duels. So some classes spend a ridiculous amount of 'consumes' in a very short time when dueling.. such as Soul Shards, Blinding Powder, Thistle tea, etc.

May as well ask a warlock to go check how long it takes to farm a bag full of soul shards mate... Just to blow them in 8-10 duels later.

I played a rogue in vanilla and I remember that I used blind sparingly. And I NEVER used my tea in PVP, cause that was just a waste of gold. I don't remember the AH prices but I could not afford it. And yes, I did have herb and I did farm of my own.

Also, rogues benefit immensely from the duel reset already since they have lots of resettable cooldowns. Justifying by comparing it to warlocks, who only has death coil (2min cd), is ridiculous.

The fact of the matter is that cooldowns are supposed to be used sparingly and the current duels are not the way that pvp was supposed to be in vanilla. Duels where more of an afterthought back then.

I don't mind duels but I don't want the server to be balanced around them.
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#37
(01-15-2019, 11:35 AM)Hisana Wrote:
(01-15-2019, 10:48 AM)kfcrampage Wrote: Here's what you go do as a test: find out how fast one can farm the mats for the thistle tea. If you find that it takes way too long then we'll consider agreeing with you. Right now it seems like you've rarely if ever gone out to farm this thistle tea on your on on this server. I even saw Vsu selling thistle tea in stacks so it can't be that hard to farm...

You realise I can spend a stack in less than a minute or two, right? Rogue duels rarely last that long.

If I only needed them every 5 minutes it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But one of the features of the server is CD reset on duels. So some classes spend a ridiculous amount of 'consumes' in a very short time when dueling.. such as Soul Shards, Blinding Powder, Thistle tea, etc.

May as well ask a warlock to go check how long it takes to farm a bag full of soul shards mate... Just to blow them in 8-10 duels later.

Go test it out, farm some briarthorn & mageroyal for them drops. Just remember every consumable has a price Wink

The number one rated comment on swifthistle from 2006:
By BenoitXVI on 09/12/2006 (Patch 1.12.0)

Here's my hint i'd like to share about this item: 

- Early in the game if you're an herbalist and wish to make money quite rapidly try to gather as much as possible of this plant which by the way can only be found in Briathorn and Mageroyal plants and sell it in packages of 20 to the auction house. You'll see that it's worth a lot.


So, idk if you're just trolling or...this stuff was a hot commodity back in vanilla and had a price and people made money selling it. The whole "it should be damn near free" is wearing itself out because of the weak basis behind it that you don't have time to farm it and it should be available for 24/7 use when not many people used it 24/7 back in vanilla.

I went to winterspring to farm consumables because I wanted an advantage for when I use them. I pay for consumables that I can't gather that I want to use to give me an edge. It's the same way you want to use Thistle tea except I have the time and want to go farm it so I know I can use it later.

It was not in the rotation of every rogue back then because not everyone could afford using it 24/7. It should not be treated as a consumable that you CAN use 24/7 like poisons.

edit: another post about it from way back then on thottbot
By ps2mike on 2006/04/30 (Patch 1.9.4)
Subject: "$$$$$$"
i made alot of money off this herb. not only is it used for rogues tea it's used alot in the lower level potions for battle grounds. I've been selling these for 10G/stack and they always sell.

Swiftthistle = 10G/stack
Kingsblood = 4G/stack
Briarthorn = 2G50S/stack

these always sell and are great for helping you at lower levels at getting the needed funds to purchase your mounts.
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#38
Way to pick comments that favor your side, lmao; also comments:

"prices for this stuff will vary all over the place...ive sold a stack of 20 for 10g one day and for 2g the next...heres what i do"

"But he'd rather do high level instances, or battlegrounds, has hundreds of gold on hand and can get a stack of Swiftthistle at the AH for 2g so why not buy it?"

yep, 2g a stack. seen that somewhere else have we not?

[Image: hA4kpJ7.png]

not to mention a stack of Swiftthistle is 20, not 10.. so it's HALF the price. That's 10 silver per Thistle Tea lmao.

i was a rogue back in vanilla and i blasted these things 24/7 despite being a complete noob.

You know what the best part is? These Thistle Teas above are being sold for a PROFIT.

Here are the actual raw mat prices:

[Image: qCizcxG.png]

that's as low as ~ 17s per Tea lmao if i brew them myself.


gotta be careful about using these 'expensive' consumables guys  Rolleyes

but yeah, i don't even main rogue here. i'm just pointing out that this is an inconsistency with the server concept.

not to mention that neither Thistle Tea, NOR blind is a part of Alchemy. They are poisons and cooking.
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#39
Just add it to the web store...

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#40
support. literally ruins the class without availability.
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