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crit cap pvp
#11
(03-15-2019, 03:20 PM)Tonpo Wrote: Having +0 hit doesn't mean you'll miss every attack so having 76% crit will still increase your chances for the times when you do hit the mob.  And that's the same regardless of whether you're duel wielding or using a 2h.  And having 95% crit with 5% hit still gives you a 5% chance not to crit.  So the real crit cap is 100%, or non-existent like I said because you'll never reach more than 50% on this server.  And because you want to be critting 100% of the time when you do hit the mob regardless of what your hit chance is.

So the answer is to stack as much crit as possible since you'll never have enough.  And the soft cap is around 60% because that's when it starts to diminish in value due to redundancy and having to sacrifice other stats like enchanting gloves with agility instead of strength.  But that's just for games in general since 60% is impossible here.

No, it does not work like this in vanilla wow. I made the same mistake myself so I understand where you are coming from.

The faulty assumption you are making is that your crit chance is the chance that any if your connecting hits will crit. The true case is that crit chance is the chance of criting on an attempted hit, whether or not it actually hits.

Eg, if you have 60% crit and are fighting a boss (40% glancing) you will crit 100% of the times you do not do a glancing blow. 60% is therefore the crit cap in this case.
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#12
(03-15-2019, 03:41 PM)mentos987 Wrote: No, it does not work like this in vanilla wow. I made the same mistake myself so I understand where you are coming from.

The faulty assumption you are making is that your crit chance is the chance that any if your connecting hits will crit. The true case is that crit chance is the chance of criting on an attempted hit, whether or not it actually hits.

Eg, if you have 60% crit and are fighting a boss (40% glancing) you will crit 100% of the times you do not do a glancing blow. 60% is therefore the crit cap in this case.


Then you still have 5% chance not to crit if you have 95% crit chance. And having 5% hit or 20% hit doesn't add to that.

The PVE logic is also flawed because with 60% crit you still have 40% chance not to crit regardless of glancing.  The chance for glancing just lowers it even more. 

So the hard cap is 100%.  And the soft cap is around 60% so you're critting more often than not and because its the threshold of redundancy and being forced to lose other stats.  But neither of those are possible on this server so stack as much as you can for PVE and PVP.
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#13
(03-15-2019, 04:14 PM)Tonpo Wrote: Then you still have 5% chance not to crit if you have 95% crit chance.  And having 5% hit or 20% hit doesn't add to that.

The PVE logic is also flawed because with 60% crit you still have 40% chance not to crit regardless of glancing.  The chance for glancing just lowers it even more. 

So the hard cap is 100%.  And the soft cap is around 60% so you're critting more often than not and because its the threshold of redundancy and being forced to lose other stats.  But neither of those are possible on this server so stack as much as you can for PVE and PVP.

You are still not correct and I can't explain it much better without making a rather long post. You may wanna do some research on the matter: https://retro-wow.com/forum/printthread.php?tid=4288

"The takeaway from this is that for melee swings, hit and crit are independent of each other. Unlike with spellcasting, having more +melee hit will not in any way affect the overall crit rate of your melee swings." -- taken from the link above.

The gist of the matter is that the coders at blizzard allready compensated for the percentile math and that the values we see in-game are simplified; +1crit will give us 1 more crit out of 100 attempts, regardless of all other attempts (miss or glancing).

I guess you could call it "additive percentage math".

Also, I am just trying to help here, no need to go through all my comments and giving me -rep.
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#14
(03-15-2019, 06:18 PM)mentos987 Wrote: You are still not correct and I can't explain it much better without making a rather long post. You may wanna do some research on the matter: https://retro-wow.com/forum/printthread.php?tid=4288

"The takeaway from this is that for melee swings, hit and crit are independent of each other.  Unlike with spellcasting, having more +melee hit will not in any way affect the overall crit rate of your melee swings." -- taken from the link above.

I've been saying since the beginning that crit is independent of hit. 

You said the 2h crit cap is 95% or 80% for dual wield.
The article you linked says its under 40%
This article claims its 76%  https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/659...ke-Cap-FAQ

So which is it?  

https://vanilla-wow.fandom.com/wiki/Attack_table
"the entries at the top of the table take precedence over the entries below them."
You don't start losing stats until the sum all stats in the table goes above 100%, then it will skim off whatever is on the bottom.  

So what's your personal crit cap then?  In PVP, there is none, or you're never going to reach it.  Why?  Because glancing blows take a huge percentage of the table and those are null in PVP so there's plenty of room for other stats, especially for 2h.  If you have 0% chance to miss and there's no glancing blows then the rest of the numbers like dodge or parry are around 5%, the exception being block.  But even that doesn't add up to much so your personal crit cap is so high that everyone can stack as much crit as possible without ever losing stats because nobody is going to get over a sum of 100% in the table by stacking crit in this version of the game.  And because that would be a minimum of 50% and i've never seen anyone even close to that.
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#15
(03-16-2019, 10:32 AM)Tonpo Wrote: ...

"You said the 2h crit cap is 95% or 80% for dual wield.
The article you linked says its under 40%"

It is 95%/80% in PVP and 40%ish in PVE

And both of your sources uses math from The Burning Crusade, you can tell by the number 24% for glancing blows. Vanilla glancing blow chance is 40%.

"So what's your personal crit cap then?" For my dual wield warr in PVP the crit cap would be 80% (with +5 hit). And I am not arguing that you will reach that cap in pvp, I just felt it necessary to point out the error in regards to PVE.
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