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Vanilla rogue mindset
#1
Brick 
Hi i am sunqt, this is a guide that i'll make over time. I will share what i've learned trhough my vanilla experience, this is an ongoing project that i will develop with time and with you, if you'd like to comment about anything and create a discussion.
It won't be the kind of guide with 1/ definition of cs, ks, ss. Then the maccros to use. Then the rotation etc..
It's a kind of guide that requires you to come back here and read again,  and then try to apply yourself and doing on your own what i think you should tend of doing. And this until you truly anderstood the idea behind it.
It's more like a practical way of playing instead of all the theory, but this practical way requires you to be involved a minimum in order to be efficient.
And again, you are welcome to comment anything and maybe disagree, this post is supposed to be a place for exchange and dialogue.

I think starter rogue can also read this, it can help you see from a different perspective that class and other classes, wich is always usefull. For even if you won't apply those strategy directly, it will still be somewhere in your brain.

Don't hesitate to comment and ask questions or add anything to what you think is interesting.

I'll be talking about duels, and how to be as optimal as possible in any situations -

Duel are the core of vanilla for it allows you to anderstand the other class in every way. I'll explain what you should tend do against each class / spec
I'm saying "tend to do" for it's not the issue of the fight that is important, it is how optimal your gameplay was, your goal is not to win, your goal is to make your chances to win as high as possible and truly anderstand the class you are fighting.


I can only talk about duels, since talking about team fight would take years to talk about. Every situation is different regarding how many opponent you are fighting, what is your goal in that fight (try to earn as much time as possible ? Try to make them use their cd ? ), what class you are fighting, and with what class you are fighting with. There are just too many possibilities.

So the way to anderstand better teamfight in his core, is to anderstand each class very well, and that's what i'll try to make you anderstand with the duel section.
Once you anderstand the other classes, you can play and tend to be as optimal as possible, and that's all you should try to do in vanilla or anywhere actually. Try to be optimal by focusing the right guy at the right time, use the right cd's, mayeb keep some cds for later for this time isnt worth of using them etc...

Truly anderstand your class and every other class to be able to adapt in any situation is the only right way to follow. For there are an infinite possible situations of team fights, and that all of those situations cannot be described by anyone nor memorized by anyone anyway.
That's why anderstand one by one all the classes and spec is that important, and that i'll talk about what you should tend to do while duelling everyone.


I ] Mage -

I'll be talking about hemo spec, i havent played dager enough to talk about it; i just dont think it offers as much possibilities as hemo for many reasons.

Elemental mage -

This fight like th eone i'll describe is of course very specific, and its not likely that you will have the exact same one. However, the way of thinking behind all of the situations i'll describe is something any rogue can anderstand and should follow. It's not the action that is important in that guide, it's why this action is made. So while reading this do not learn by heart those moves, anderstand them.

Trinkets -

they are either the easiest the kill or the hardest. Depends on if he try hard or not.

The most op item he can use against a rogue are : gnomish boots, tidal, skull, pvp trinket.

In that case, i advise you to use : Pvp trinket, ouro shield. That's all you'll need.

Ouro shield will allows you to have 900 extra health wich is a must, since you probably have around 4k5 hp as a bis rogue, wich is not enough against a bis elemental mage.

Pvp trinket is a must, for if he sheeps you after you have used 1 sprint, he will first aid and have his blink ready. And the fight will just start all over again with you having sprint. So you will die.

Open and cooldowns -

The most important part is how you manage your cooldowns and how you open. The open depends on if the mages moves a lot or not in the begining. If he doesnt you will do garrote on him. Indeed, a fire mage havea huge burst but not a lot of stamina or defensive cd's, yo will therefore try to put as much pressure as possible.
  If he doesnt move you can garrote and be almost sure to make another hemo and be sure to applied crippling poison. If he blinks right after that garrote the chances are that you will not have applied the crippling poison, but it doesnt matter it's still good for you. A blink without having to do cs or ks is perfect against an elemntal mage. So whenever you can, cs him. The best way is to vanish his nova while you run toward him then cs, because the best way of using your cd's are vanish > sprint / blind against a fire mage. Of course i hope you have improved sprint, if you dont you are probably cold blood, in that case you can just 2 shot elememental (but you'll have more issues with other classes / spec, wich makes that spec less interesting imo).

So yea basically, garrote then try to cs him by using vanish or dodging coc or nova and cheap shot him. But be carefull when you want to dodge, it can be usefull but in the same time deadly for you, if you dodge you waste time, and wasted time against a fire mage means more cd are coming back to him. If he doesnt let you come in melee by using tidal or running quickly with speed boots just vanish sap, first aid. You will have lost vanish cd he will have lost speed and tidal. Totally worth it. Be carefull not to vanish with an ignite.

After the sap and first aid, do the same : garrote and cheap shot. You won't have vanish so you ll have to use sprint. Without tidal and boots he will never be able to keep you out of melee range since you still have imp sprint, so your goal is to cheap shot as soon as you can for a simple reason. The longer you wait the more his blink cd is being reduced and his fireblast cd too. So run toward him quickly, use your sprint only when he coc or nova tho.

So now you have a cs on him, you deal your damage, now after your cs you should let a small gap between cs and ks. He doesnt have blink so it's a little gap of 1s maximum that will make you win more time in melee. Your position must be as close to him as possible to that he doesnt run too far away from you during that 1s, the best position is actually tring to be in front of him at the last moment, so he will actually run toward you during that second, wich will avoid you to be out of melee while you ks him if he decides to do pvp trinket + jump + nova nova. With a little bit of luck, he might actually use tidal if he didnt yet or even nova, and since your ks will be full you will cc him longer that he did.

He will probably block your ks tho, wich is fine. If he doesnt block the ks, you gouge. After your gouge you garrote again for full pressure, but you can also cheap shot after the gouge, and maybe he will block it even if that cs will have dr, but i would garrote to be sure, most good mages will know that the cs will have dr. So after that, he will probably get away and use pvp trinket to remove poison, you are snare without vanish and sprint, you cant blind cuz he got garrote on him. If you did a cs with the dr and he didnt blind i suggest you blind. Try to blind before he coc, if he allready coc try to blind as soon as possible so he is still near you. That's the key of the fight, trying to keep a close distance all the time.
  So if he is garrote and get away use blind anyway, but right after a tic on him, it will let you 1s to get to him again. During that one second you use prepa or nade him to get to him and spam hemo, he will block for sure. He ll block either the 1s blind or the nade or when you are in the melee.

Now he got his blink and things are getting complicated, you dont have prep anymore.
Try to gouge when he cancels his block, if he manage to nova and get out, use vanish first (keep your sprint and use vanish in prioritie all the time). Vanish then cs for you will probably won't have time to garrote behind his back. He will blink that cs for sure and now you try to blind whenever you can. You ll pop ouro shield while trying to get to him to blind for you will be low hp by now.
That second blind will have dr but it's fine, you just need to spend few second in melee now to kill him and he doesnt have any blink. If he doesnt block that blind you win. Blind is here to make you close to your target, the full duration fo a blind against a mage is useless for it wil only make him have his firebalst and blink back more quickly. You as a rogue dont have short cd, the mage does. So dont help him and finish this fight as soon as possible.

If he block it and doesnt stay max duration inside you win, for he wont have blink up.
If he stays full duration you stealth, sap when he is out of block (if you dont have good connexion dont stay near his block, let him spam some arcane explosion whe nhe gets out and do a sap. After the sap you wait full energy and garrote. During his block, you can also make him believe you go near him and stealth, this way he will coc or nova, when in fact you won't be in melee. If you manage to make him use nova you don't have to sap, you can just finish him.

He won't have much mana but still enough to kill you if he got gemmes, and he got his blink now.
He is sap so you can garrote and hemo, just go at a 90° angle (or make a maccro to cancel auto hit) to garrote without making any white hit on him. Garrote, no white hit, then hemo and white hit. He will probably have crippling on him now. He blinks. If he doesnt blink you win, if will nova, you sprint nova and ks, then he blinks you dont have snare he got crippling, you can dodge him easy. Dodge his next coc and finish him.
If he blinks the garrote you still have to sprint, cuz if he s good you won't be in melee anymore and you ll die. So sprint directly and try to dodge him. To dodge remember that any class got a gcd, so you can run toward him freely right after he did a spell.

Frost mage -
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#2


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#3
Nice man I'd like to see more Smile
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#4
Nice seeing zonee get some
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#5
Enjoyed.
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#6
@gnawbone i might do more someday, but so much dislike and retard comment on my videos break my sensitive heart Sad
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#7
Sad don't let the man get you down Sun, those haters aren't making guides or videos
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#8
Fuck Gnawbone imo
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#9
Error: you have already entered too many mom jokes for today.
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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#10
Spreading fake German news
-rep Sackoo..type
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
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